Curse

Shadowlion · Jan 12, 2007, 01:11 AM // 01:11

Why the three human kingdom did not unite together to drive the charr army back?
I think if they unite together and with the unseen one's help the charr won't be a problem.
Can I say, in this war, the Mursaat saved humanity?

Niels · Jan 12, 2007, 01:46 AM // 01:46

The 3 human kingdoms where to busy fighting eachother, leaving the Charr on the side-lines. So they didn't really expect such a massive invasion.
You can see how king Aberdeen reacts on Rurik's idea to retreat to Kryta.

gilgameshx · Jan 12, 2007, 02:36 AM // 02:36

In the Prophecies manual, 1013AE Guild Wars began, meaning the 3 kingdoms were at war with each other. By 1070AE, the Charr invaded the human kingdoms. Then a few months after the invasion, Guild Wars ends. It probably ended after Ascalon was nearly destroyed, Kryta pushing back the Charr, and Orr completely destroyed.

The Mursaat had almost nothing to do with Kryta's war against the Charr. Since the manual also explains that no one has seen the "winged gods" that Saul D'Alessio saw. Most likely Saul's started having many followers and believers. Which then he had an army (White Mantle) strong enough to push back the Charr with Kryta.

BTW, the Mursaat are or should be Abaddon's servants. But on the wiki, they don't know if the Unseen is the same as Unseen ones. I'm sure they are the same. Read this link about "The Unseen"

Shadowlion · Jan 12, 2007, 02:51 AM // 02:51

But the wiki said Mursaat helped Whitemantle turned the tide. And i don't think the Whitemantle has power to drive back charr without Mursaat's help.

draxynnic · Jan 12, 2007, 04:16 AM // 04:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by gilgameshx

BTW, the Mursaat are or should be Abaddon's servants. But on the wiki, they don't know if the Unseen is the same as Unseen ones. I'm sure they are the same. Read this link about "The Unseen"

I think people are reading far too much into that. There is a lot of good evidence that the Mursaat aren't followers of Abaddon, a large part being that there aren't any in the Realm of Torment. There aren't even any Mursaat ghosts in the Realm of Torment, which, since Torment is the dumping ground for souls that are touched by Abaddon, seems to me to be virtually impossible if the Mursaat are servants of Abaddon.

Avatara · Jan 12, 2007, 05:07 AM // 05:07

Sure abbadons servants are trying to keep a gate to the Domain of Anguish closed? The Lich was the one trying to put abbadon loose... same as Shiro (by offsetting the balance of souls between this world and the underworld).

Quote:

I'd suspect the Envoys thought that the prison was secure. After all, the prison is secure enough to hold a god, so surely it'll hold Shiro... (They didn't know the walls of the prison were weakening...)

The prison is secure... the only problem is that Abbadon is turning the rest of the world into his prison.

gilgameshx · Jan 12, 2007, 07:29 AM // 07:29

Quote:

I think people are reading far too much into that. There is a lot of good evidence that the Mursaat aren't followers of Abaddon, a large part being that there aren't any in the Realm of Torment. There aren't even any Mursaat ghosts in the Realm of Torment, which, since Torment is the dumping ground for souls that are touched by Abaddon, seems to me to be virtually impossible if the Mursaat are servants of Abaddon.

To me, the Mursaat are surely servants of Abaddon. The Jade Armor is one proof. I found it hard to believe at first until I read about the quests about the Unseen.

Quote:

But the wiki said Mursaat helped Whitemantle turned the tide. And i don't think the Whitemantle has power to drive back charr without Mursaat's help.

Read the Prophecies manual about the kingdom of Kryta and Saul D'Alessio. Kryta had two groups of army fighting the Charr, the Lionguard and the White Mantle. At the time, it was only the Lionguard that were fighting against the Charr till the White Mantle came later.

cataphract · Jan 12, 2007, 10:12 AM // 10:12

The Mursaat cannot be servants of Abaddon simply because they helped the Mantle fight the Charr which were used by the Titans, servants of Abaddon, as .. cannon-fodder. There are a few quests in the Realm of Torment that shed light on the Charr invasion and their gods. There's a Charr NPC who wants to talk to his gods, the Titans, and when you finally bring him to one Titan boss the things he says to the Charr... Well, let's just say I felt sad for the furry beast and kicked some Titan behinds.

Sophitia Leafblade · Jan 12, 2007, 10:36 AM // 10:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by gilgameshx

To me, the Mursaat are surely servants of Abaddon. The Jade Armor is one proof. I found it hard to believe at first until I read about the quests about the Unseen.

Read the Prophecies manual about the kingdom of Kryta and Saul D'Alessio. Kryta had two groups of army fighting the Charr, the Lionguard and the White Mantle. At the time, it was only the Lionguard that were fighting against the Charr till the White Mantle came later.

The Mursaat arnt servants of Abaddon, they may have once been, but they certainly are not by the time Prophecies takes place. The Titans massicure them before they even attack the human kingdoms (as seen in defend droks quest) 'The Unseen' and the 'Unseen ones' are two sperate things

As for the white mantle just because the mursaat werent seen it doesnt mean they didnt assist the white Mantle. They could have appeared here and there to eliminate Charr forces (cutting off supply line , patrols etc.) The Lionguard were a broken force and the white mantle were a growing order of former lionguard members and civilians but they would be no match for the charr on there own. After all even the entire army of Orr was completly overun and they we said to have a fine army that matched all the other nations.

Considering the charr managed a feet like the Searing im sure a race of 'powerful spell casters' like the mursaat could do something to help without being seen, even if it was just telling the Mantle to kill chosen on the blood stone to power up there warriors to make them fight better.

Free Runner · Jan 12, 2007, 04:19 PM // 16:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by gilgameshx

To me, the Mursaat are surely servants of Abaddon. The Jade Armor is one proof. I found it hard to believe at first until I read about the quests about the Unseen.

The Mursaat were destroyed by Abaddons servants, the Titans after they began rampaging across Tyria. They were trying to stop them from being set free. Why would they be servants of him?

Like Sophitia said " The Unseen Ones" and "The Unseen" are two different things. Think of "The Unseen" being like "The Hunger".

The reason the 3 kingdoms did not unite in my opinion is because it came so fast and unexpected. The Charr began attacking Ascalon and caused the searing. Then one army moves onto Orr which is blown up and sunken. Whilst this is going on they begin attacking Kryta but the newly formed White Mantle stop them. All 3 kingdoms were under attack. They had no time to unite.

Shadowlion · Jan 13, 2007, 03:34 AM // 03:34

There should be a few Mursaat survive in the jungle.
I don't think Mursaat is a evil race. to me they are the protector of Kryta, just a little bit selfish, if they can explain a little bit to human mortals maybe the lich won't success.

Maria Moon · Jan 13, 2007, 07:27 AM // 07:27

the 3 kingdoms did not only have time to unite, but also the Guild wars had just finished a few years ago and the kingdoms feelings towards each other was,..well lets say less than friendly, the mursaat cant be the servents of abbadon as they tried to keep the door of kamalie closed, but yet the lich, (1 of abbadons "number 1's) was trying to open the door of kamalie in order to help abbadon escape,

*liltle spoiler*

i dont think exactly that abbadon was bringing the real world into his nightmare realm cause if my memory serve right, during a quest or mission kormir and dunkoro debate wether to try and kill abbadon or to go back to the real world and prepare for his assault, though i do know that the realm of torment is basically the real world in his own nightmarish version, he at no stage tried to bring the real world into the torment, though i believe, and do accept that this is my opnion and i could be wrong or right in it, i respect that there are other theories that other players have so i wont say that "my theory is better than yours you noob so just shut up"

*spoiler*

though i am still worried about how shiro managed to end up in the torment realm, as i double cheacked it and in the last mission of faction imperial sanctum after u defeat shiro the envoys specifically say that "they have a special place in the UW" where he wont escape from,.. now we all know that the UW and the realm of torment are 2 completely different realms, so how did shiro end up in the realm of torment,...lets go with 1 of the only logical reasons and say that due to abbadons intervention shiro escaped, even if this happened why did the envoys not warn or call upon the "heroes" to tell them of wat happned? another mystery of guild wars,..perhaps time will only tell.

if i have offended anyone plz forgive me i did not do it intentionally, and know that i respect ur opinions and beliefs on the matter if u do have any useful information regarding wat i said then plz feel free to speak your mind

FoxBat · Jan 13, 2007, 09:58 AM // 09:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maria Moon

now we all know that the UW and the realm of torment are 2 completely different realms

Read up, torment is a division of the underworld. Not surprising that there's so many dead spirits around then eh?

It's not clear whether Abbadon was more trying to pull the material world into the realm of torment or instead outright transform the material world into the realm of torment, but the end result is basically the same. Kormir's comments when you first run around nightfallen Jahai indicate that there's the threat at least.

Maria Moon · Jan 13, 2007, 10:31 AM // 10:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

Read up, torment is a division of the underworld. Not surprising that there's so many dead spirits around then eh?

ok ty for pointing that out to me foxbat, so now that completely blows my whole shiro theory to the wind, o well least we got the fact in the end.

Free Runner · Jan 13, 2007, 10:36 AM // 10:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowlion

There should be a few Mursaat survive in the jungle.
I don't think Mursaat is a evil race. to me they are the protector of Kryta, just a little bit selfish, if they can explain a little bit to human mortals maybe the lich won't success.

I also dont think the Mursaat as an evil race. I think they were just looking out for their own species. But i think they were against humans aswell. They only used Sauls encounter as the key to help them stopping the upcoming wipeout of their race.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maria Moon

now we all know that the UW and the realm of torment are 2 completely different realms

It is confusing but yes the Realm of Torment is a divison inside the Underworld. This is slightly revealed by one of the Underworld Reapers. I'm guessing ether the Envoys did not know about Abaddons current situation (him trying to break free) or they simply did not care and just wanted rid of Shiro once and for all.

NinjaKai · Jan 13, 2007, 12:04 PM // 12:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free Runner

It is confusing but yes the Realm of Torment is a divison inside the Underworld. This is slightly revealed by one of the Underworld Reapers. I'm guessing ether the Envoys did not know about Abaddons current situation (him trying to break free) or they simply did not care and just wanted rid of Shiro once and for all.

The envoys are clearly bound by certain rules that they either can't or won't break. Considering the envoys are strictly in Cantha obviously when something like Shiro comes along their desire to rid him from Cantha is understandable.
When you look at it Abaddon has been working at his escape for a very long time. He did use that fortune teller to trick Shiro. So its possible the envoys have no knowledge of Abaddons reach over the living world or how he's able to intervene.

draxynnic · Jan 13, 2007, 03:52 PM // 15:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

Read up, torment is a division of the underworld. Not surprising that there's so many dead spirits around then eh?

It's not clear whether Abbadon was more trying to pull the material world into the realm of torment or instead outright transform the material world into the realm of torment, but the end result is basically the same. Kormir's comments when you first run around nightfallen Jahai indicate that there's the threat at least.

I think it's sort of a combination of both. Not so much pulling the material world into Torment, more expanding the boundaries of Torment so they overlap with chunks of the real world.

SPOILERS BELOW

The best example is the Nightfallen Garden of Seborhin, which was for most intents and purposes a piece of the world that had fallen into Torment. (The alternate mission to Jennur's Horde I'm not sure about - I can't really say whether Nundu Bay actually happened or whether the whole mission played out in Melonni's head...)

It seems that the means of expanding the boundaries is to create a part of Torment that mirrored a part of the real world, and then somehow project it (possibly involving some kind of sympathetic resonance or some similar handwavium) into the real world - the final part seemingly requiring the Harbingers to proceed. With Seborhin (and, possibly, Marga Coast) you actually see this after the fact and have to destroy the Harbingers to reverse it. In Nightfallen Jahai, you see the preparation for it to happen again.